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The Thief Class Was Never Gygax's Invention
The Thief class wasn't Gary Gygax's idea. It came from a game store in Santa Monica, a player named Daniel Wagner, and a phone call that Gygax's collaborator made without telling anyone. Here's the full origin story — and what it tells us about why the class was designed the way it was.
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This is the follow-up to last week's video on the B/X Thief's low skill percentages. We go into the Aero Hobbies group, Wagner's original Burglar class concept, what Gygax changed when he redesigned it, and the credit dispute that ended with TSR backing down at a convention. Plus: how traps were actually handled in 1974 before the Thief existed — and why that changes how you should be running them at your table right now.
The Tavern Rules: We’re here for B/X and OSR gaming. I use AI as a tool to help organize and format my notes, but every ruling and opinion is 100% Tenkar. Keep it civil, keep it old-school, or the bouncer will show you the door.
Jon Peterson's Playing at the World 2e https://amzn.to/4vBxKpI
Basic Rules (Moldvay) PDF & Print - https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/110274/d-d-basic-set-rulebook-b-x-ed-basic?src=newest_print&affiliate_id=1446
Expert Rules (Marsh/Cook) PDF & Print - https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/110792/d-d-expert-set-rulebook-b-x-ed-basic?affiliate_id=1446
Join The Tavern’s Discord Server (It's Free):
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Buy me a Beer!
ko-fi.com/tenkar
0:00 The Thief Class Myth: Challenging the "Gygaxian" narrative
1:23 The Pre-Thief Era: How everyone found traps via player skill (not dice)
2:36 The "Time-Pressure" Procedure: Why traps were lethal before the thief
3:37 The Santa Monica Origin: Daniel Wagner and the Aero Hobbies group
5:21 The "Thief" vs. "Rogue" nomenclature: Why the name matters
6:25 The Great Plains Newsletter (1974): The class hits print for the first time
7:23 Gygax's Mechanical Pivot: Why percentage-based resolution replaced "Skill-as-Spell"
8:27 Backstab Mechanics: The tactical evolution from specialist to gambler
10:24 The Orania Manual (1976): The first "stolen" third-party D&D supplement
11:46 The Standoff: Wagner vs. Gygax at Gen Con
12:35 The DM’s Lesson: How a dwarf with a dagger proves the rule of "Yes, and..."
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Master Minion: terrytaylor113, blahlbinoa, DeanSals1, dmakron, agilemonk6305, matthewsherman1183, DanTesch, douglaspearson9552, HalflingTorchbearer, murseoftheyear , tireddaddyof4267, yardofguiness
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#OSR #DnD #BXDnD #TTRPG #TenkarsTavern #DnDHistory #ThiefClass
Видео The Thief Class Was Never Gygax's Invention канала Tenkar's Tavern
🔥 JOIN THE MINIONS: https://www.youtube.com/@TenkarsTavern/join
This is the follow-up to last week's video on the B/X Thief's low skill percentages. We go into the Aero Hobbies group, Wagner's original Burglar class concept, what Gygax changed when he redesigned it, and the credit dispute that ended with TSR backing down at a convention. Plus: how traps were actually handled in 1974 before the Thief existed — and why that changes how you should be running them at your table right now.
The Tavern Rules: We’re here for B/X and OSR gaming. I use AI as a tool to help organize and format my notes, but every ruling and opinion is 100% Tenkar. Keep it civil, keep it old-school, or the bouncer will show you the door.
Jon Peterson's Playing at the World 2e https://amzn.to/4vBxKpI
Basic Rules (Moldvay) PDF & Print - https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/110274/d-d-basic-set-rulebook-b-x-ed-basic?src=newest_print&affiliate_id=1446
Expert Rules (Marsh/Cook) PDF & Print - https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/110792/d-d-expert-set-rulebook-b-x-ed-basic?affiliate_id=1446
Join The Tavern’s Discord Server (It's Free):
https://discord.gg/fReGmuD
Buy me a Beer!
ko-fi.com/tenkar
0:00 The Thief Class Myth: Challenging the "Gygaxian" narrative
1:23 The Pre-Thief Era: How everyone found traps via player skill (not dice)
2:36 The "Time-Pressure" Procedure: Why traps were lethal before the thief
3:37 The Santa Monica Origin: Daniel Wagner and the Aero Hobbies group
5:21 The "Thief" vs. "Rogue" nomenclature: Why the name matters
6:25 The Great Plains Newsletter (1974): The class hits print for the first time
7:23 Gygax's Mechanical Pivot: Why percentage-based resolution replaced "Skill-as-Spell"
8:27 Backstab Mechanics: The tactical evolution from specialist to gambler
10:24 The Orania Manual (1976): The first "stolen" third-party D&D supplement
11:46 The Standoff: Wagner vs. Gygax at Gen Con
12:35 The DM’s Lesson: How a dwarf with a dagger proves the rule of "Yes, and..."
The Tavern uses affiliate links - using our affiliate links supports the channel without costing you anything extra.
Humble Bundle: humblebundleinc.sjv.io/da4WJ2
The Tavern’s Amazon Storefront: amzn.to/41Jm0oG
DriveThruRPG: drivethrurpg.com/en/?affiliate_id=1446
Fantasy Grounds VTT: affiliates.fantasygrounds.com/388855/15958
The Tavern uses Restream for its livestreams and its long-form videos. You can too! https://restream.io/join/g5Qpgr
The Tavern uses ClipGOAT to create its shorts. You can use it too!
clipgoat.com/?ref=erik
The Tavern also uses VidIQ: https://vidiq.com/TenkarsTavern
Master Minion: terrytaylor113, blahlbinoa, DeanSals1, dmakron, agilemonk6305, matthewsherman1183, DanTesch, douglaspearson9552, HalflingTorchbearer, murseoftheyear , tireddaddyof4267, yardofguiness
Super Minion: Indigo Ro, DM Raptor, SinnerElla, Ryan Nilsson, Erik Wahlberg, Donalds Angry, COS Crafts, maxnomicon, Midnight Green, Rich3rd, Gladstone Pinheiro, Cecilia Souza, Joe Stone, boss bully boy, Marcelo Correia, Richard Hooper, ᄃΉΣMIᄃΛᄂᄃӨᄃӨПЦƬ, T Flo_Ijimisan, LawDawg, Unscripted & Unchained, JimothyTimothy, Eupolemos, Jay, Martin Penny, im cafferty, Chris Burkhart, Douglas Pearson, Curt Gould, Matthew Sherman
#OSR #DnD #BXDnD #TTRPG #TenkarsTavern #DnDHistory #ThiefClass
Видео The Thief Class Was Never Gygax's Invention канала Tenkar's Tavern
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