Let's Talk About Lindy Hop And Blackness - Part 4: The Deification of Frankie Manning

Frankie Manning is known by many as the ambassador of Lindy Hop. It can’t be
argued that Frankie contributed greatly to the dance both when it was just
emerging, creating many of its famous moves and routines, and in its more
recent history by travelling around the world sharing his knowledge and
passion. However, there seems to be a deification of his figure, which has
created many problems within the Lindy Hop community.

In this interview we will discuss Part 4 of Grey Armstrong’s series “Let’s Talk
About Lindy Hop And Blackness” based on his article, which we highly
recommend you to read: https://ilindy.com/blog/lets-talk-about-lindy-hop-and-
blackness-part-4/

“The tokenism of Frankie has overshadowed all other Black dancers to the point
that other famous dancers, and his teammates, are significantly lesser-known.
Even today, many Black dancers have discussions about feeling stuck beneath
his shadow and compared to the idealized vision of him. These tropes often
directly conflict with what Black dancers (including other elders) are/were saying
and are used as a way to minimize the experiences of many.”

“When I watched the Hellzapoppin’ video as a young dancer I recall being
mostly focused on trying to figure out why their dancing looked so different than
what I saw around me and... a discomfort with the costumes. It was then that I
started hearing the talk about Frankie. People talked about him as though he
was a magical figure. It was as if your closeness to Frankie was a status
symbol.”

00:00 - General Introduction
00:56 - Meet Grey Armstrong
04:17 - Introduction to the article “Let’s Talk About Lindy Hop and Blackness - Part 4: The Deification of Frankie Manning”
07:25 - When did this topic show up in the Black Community?
11:18 - Different treatments for Frankie and for Norma
13:45 - Why did Frankie stop dancing?
16:00 - Could anyone have stopped this deification?
18:53 - “What you feel and what you are allowed to share in white company are two different things.”
22:47 - What is the best way to dismantle some of this deification?
31:27 - We compare ourselves not to Frankie as a person, but to an idea of him
35:30 - Is this only Grey’s perspective, or does it represent a larger community?
40:08 - What could support structures look like?
44:50 - What values are we judging in competitions?
49:20 - The Blues Community, past and present
59:25 - How do we get the Lindy Hop community to change for the better?
1:05:40 - Wrapping Up
Grey Armstrong is a blues dancer, writer, and instructor of Black culture, history,
and dance. His work focuses on unpacking unconscious bias, and cross-cultural
communication, in addition to culture formation. He also travels the world
teaching African American vernacular dances and giving lectures on Black
history and culture. He is the founder of the popular blog and website Obsidian
Tea, which explores themes of the Black experience and culture, Anti-racism
Praxis, developing cultural competency, and the evolving relationship between
Black and white Americans in the United States from the trans-Atlantic slave
trade onwards.

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